Tales of Maj'Eyal - User contributions [en]

Recommended Zone Order Progression

2016-11-22T13:10:29Z

Skafsgaard:

==Introduction==

Based on the old Goon Zone order progression guide, this guide is meant for newer users who need advice about which order to complete different zones. It is not true for all situations and all classes, and experienced players can choose to skip some zones or move the order about.

If you've got a suggestion for different zone order, '''please''' write it up on the [[{{TALKPAGENAME}}| talk page]] for discussion.

Also, this page is '''not for strategy''' about the individual zones; please put that on the actual zone's page. To keep this page from becoming cluttered, please limit commentary and notes to those applying to decisions about zones.

==Main Campaign==

=== Starting Game to Level 10 ===

Players in the early game are fragile and easily killed, due to low [[life]], lack of talents, and poor gear. In early zones players should be quick to use escape options and willing to flee from enemies.

# Starting zone(s) for your race/class, if any. If it's a difficult zone (AKA, a zone towards the end of this list), consider leaving it if you can and going to Trollmire.
# [[Trollmire]], level 1 to 3. Confident players can try level 4 and [[Bill]].
# The Tier 1 zones can be done in any order, but for least danger, the suggested order is:
## [[Norgos Lair]]
## [[Heart of the Gloom]] (do this last on nightmare or higher difficulties)
## [[Scintillating Caves]]
## [[Rhaloren Camp]]
# [[Derth]] (Talk to the Shady Man in the North for quest [[The agent of the arena]] - be sure to do this before level 14)
# [[Trollmire]] 4 if you haven't done it already
# [[Ruins of Kor'Pul]]

Note: Some players suggest you do [[Ruins of Kor'Pul]] before [[Rhaloren Camp]].

=== Level 10 to Level 20 ===

# [[Lumberjack Village]] (at any time at or over Level 10)
# [[Unknown Tunnels]] (occurs any time over Level 6. Can only be entered once. Unique reward at the end.)
# The 'Tier 2' zones can also be done in various order, but for max survivability:
## [[Old Forest]] - don't descend into [[Lake of Nur]]
## [[The Maze]]
## [[Sandworm Lair]]
## [[Daikara]]
# [[Hidden Compound]] (optional)
# [[Ruined Halfling Complex]] (optional, but contains a unique benefit at the end, for non-Halflings)
# [[Temporal Rift]] (optional and very dangerous for melees, after finishing [[Daikara]])
# [[Lake of Nur]] (Reached through [[Old Forest]])

=== Level 20 to Level 30 ===

The order at this level starts to become more fluid. You can do these zones in any order, but gaining levels before going into Dreadfell will be helpful for the battle with [[The Master]].

# [[Ruined Dungeon]] (optional, but good loot in the Vault. Can be very dangerous.)
# [[Dogroth Caldera]], if it spawns.
# [[Old Conclave Vault]] (optional; unlockable for [[Ogre]] - the zone can spawn on the worldmap, if you find the right person in the Ruined Halfling Complex. Shalore have a 100% chance of finding this person, while every other race has 30% chance)
# [[Golem Graveyard]] - optional; real purpose is in postgame
# [[Dreadfell]] (You can save vaults for later)
# [[Tempest Peak]] (optional, and [[Urkis]] is quite deadly)
# [[Dark Crypt]] (optional, level 24 or greater, only spawns once. Very dangerous, especially for melee classes, but leads to achievements and some [[Unlockables]])
# [[Last Hope Graveyard]] - open all of the individual graves first, and be prepared to run.
# [[Reknor]]
# [[Mark of the Spellblaze]] (optional - new players may wish to wait until returning from the [[Far East]])

=== Level 30 to Level 40 ===

At this point you should be in the [[Far East]].

# [[Unremarkable Cave]]
# [[Ardhungol]] (talk to the wife in [[Gates of Morning]])
# [[Temple of Creation]] - wander around near the coast to find this: Appears on world map as Entrance to an Underwater Cave. Warning: It's entirely underwater and does not have air bubbles.
# Backdoor to [[Vor Armoury]] (NOT Vor Pride)
# Go back to town to get the location of [[Briagh's Lair]], then finish it.
# Go back east and fight [[Backup Guardians]] in [[Trollmire]] (level 2), [[Kor'Pul]] (level 3), [[Reknor]] (level 4), [[Scintillating Caves]] (level 3), [[The Maze]] (level 2), [[Dreadfell]] (level 1), [[Daikara]] (level 4), [[Sandworm Lair]] (level 1), and [[Old Forest]] (level 3). [[Sandworm Lair]] first for the [[Wyrm Bile]]. Dwarves get an extra boss in [[The Deep Bellow]] (level 3).
# [[Ancient Elven Ruins]] (optional, and very dangerous)
# [[Sludgenest]] - if it spawns. This is the most dangerous zone in the game ''if'' you plan to stick around, but it leads to an [[Unlockables|Unlockable]] if you kill the boss on level 3.
# Tannen's Quest (Ask around [[Last Hope]] to unlock this)
# [[Shadow Crypt]] (optional)

=== Level 40 to Level 50 ===

# [[Valley of the Moon]], if you get the quest, optional
# The Orc Prides. The order is somewhat variable, depending on your class. A rough order is as follows:
## [[Gorbat Pride]]
## [[Grushnak Pride]]
## [[Vor Pride]]
## [[Rak'Shor Pride]]
# [[Eruan]] can be done at any time after you are told about it
# [[Slime Tunnels]]
# [[High Peak]]

=== Optional After Winning the Game ===

# [[Vor Armoury]] vault
# Clear out the [[Sludgenest]], if it spawned
# Return to [[Golem Graveyard]].
# Kill All Wizards.

Talk:Zone

2016-04-15T22:24:03Z

Skafsgaard: Dark/lit notation suggestion.

== Lit and dark dungeons ==
Hey everyone! I've posted this suggestion over on the http://te4.org/wiki/Recommended_Zone_Order_Progression page, but I think it'd be nice here too.
I just had the idea that it might be very handy to note whether a dungeon is lit or not. Most players have at least slightly different gear, depending on whether the dungeon they're about to enter is dark or lit, and some even temporarily juggle points into a talent like Heightened Senses when they're about to head into a dark dungeon.
How about we mark dungeons that are either lit or unlit by a certain symbol, so you can easily see at a glance if the dungeon you're about to head into is one where you should bring an extra bright lantern or not? For instance, if a dungeon is dark, we could mark it with a † symbol. If there is an alternate version of the dungeon, we could additionally mark it with a ‡ symbol. So, as an example, let's say that all the following dungeons have alternate versions. Dungeon A is lit in both versions, Dungeon B is lit in the normal version but dark in the alternate, Dungeon C is dark in the normal version but lit in the alternate, and Dungeon D is dark in both versions. The dungeons would thus be marked as such on the list:
1. Dungeon A
2. Dungeon B ‡
3. Dungeon C †
4. Dungeon D †‡
Whether we use this exact way of notation is unimportant - it's just the first idea I got. Regardless of how we do it, however, I think it'll be worthwhile, and very helpful, to have them marked as either lit or dark.
I also think that it might be very nice to add to each individual dungeon's page whether it's lit or not.
--[[User:Skafsgaard|Skafsgaard]] ([[User talk:Skafsgaard|talk]]) 00:24, 16 April 2016 (CEST)

Talk:Recommended Zone Order Progression

2016-04-15T22:21:52Z

Skafsgaard: Dark/lit notation suggestion.

Whoever updated and reorganized the list - great job! I'd been thinking of doing it myself, too, recently. 
I do disagree with a few things, however. If no one contests these proposed changes, I will edit them in, in a week's time or so. 
'''1.''' I'd say that Rhaloren Camp is definitely more dangerous than Kor'Pul, since it has a lot of fairly dangerous mages, and some sturdy guards. The undead of Kor'Pul are generally weaker, and there's fewer skeleton mages there. The one thing that's more dangerous about Kor'Pul is that all the levels are dark, whereas not all Rhaloren Camp levels are necessarily dark, depending on whether it's alt or not. Thus, I'd like to change the list to suggest doing Kor'Pul before Rhaloren Camp. However, whether I should move Kor'Pul and Rhaloren Camp to before or after Trollmire 4 and Derth, or simply switch the position on the list as it looks now, I'm not sure - some input there would be appreciated. 
'''2.''' I think Derth should definitely be before Trollmire 4, since the Arena fight is almost always very easy for pretty much any character, and the difficulty is also consistent. Moreover, the rewards can be a nice power bump, which would makes Trollmire 4 easier. In addition, Trollmire 4, while usually not very bad, can actually be unexpectedly difficult, somewhat so if a Hedge Wizard spawns (rare), and even more so if a Patchwork Troll spawn (very rare, but possible). 
'''3.''' It makes no sense that Golem Graveyard appears this early in the list - the level range is 14-20, compared to the 7-14 of the T2 dungeons. In addition, there's a high likelihood of spawning some really nasty rare golems, especially from the chests. The area can (potentially) be quite dangerous, and I've had bad luck with spawns there and lost strong characters there even at later levels. I'm going to move it at ''least'' until after the T2 dungeons, and perhaps even further down, due to the unpredictability of the spawns. 
'''4.''' I'm going to move the Temporal Rift further down. The first area can be bad for some melee characters, and some of the bosses can be quite nasty as well. Not to mention, the level range is above some of the dungeons listed in the level 20 to 30 section of the guide. 
'''5.''' I might move the Lake of Nur slightly further down, simply because the boss can be quite nasty for sustain-heavy characters. It also gives players more time to find an item that lets them breathe in water, or not breathe at all. 
'''6.''' Urkis is one of the game's top player killers (number 7, and the boss with the third most player kills, right after Bill and The Shade), so I reckon I will move Tempest Peak a bit further down the list, even though the level range of the area is fairly low. 
'''7.''' I think I will move the Ruined Dungeon up to the end of the 10 to 20 section, as it has a level range that fits better there, and I've personally never had much of an issue with it. Granted, some of the Guardians there can be nasty, but I don't think I've personally ever died there. 
'''8.''' I think I will move the Dark Crypt to just before Dreadfell, simply because in my experience, almost all characters will reach level 24 and encounter the Dark Crypt before Dreadfell. I will add a note advising against going in, however, unless they've managed to enter and clear Dreadfell first, and also in general advise against going in, unless you need the unlocks and have quite a strong character. 
'''9.''' I'm considering moving Mark of the Spellblaze down to after you get back from the Far East, simply due to how dangerous the Fearscape can be for most characters, unless they have a way of shutting down sustains, draining arcane resources, or have the Flame of Uhr'Rok talent. Alternatively, I might just add a note advising against going in, unless they have one of the three I just mentioned, and instead save it for later. 
'''10.''' I'm going to add a warning to Vor Armoury, advising against going into the vault there, and instead save it for the post-game. 
'''11.''' For the Backup Guardians, I'm going to put a note suggesting the option of doing the SWL first, due to the reward being a major power bump in the game, even though the Backup Guardian there is higher levelled than all others, except for Snaproot. For Dwarves, I'll also instruct them to do The Deep Bellow before The Maze, since it fits in with Trollmire, Kor'Pul, Scin Caves and Reknor, levels-wise. 
'''12.''' I'm going to put Grushnak Pride before Gorbat Pride, since most characters will have a much easier time against melee enemies - melee characters will usually have enough armour/defense/phys save for them not to be much of a problem, and ranged characters will often nuke them before they even close in. I'd like some input on how the other three Prides should be arranged, however. 
'''13.''' I'm going to move Eruan up, and suggest doing it after the first pride, since it's lower levelled, and in my experience, not very hard at all. 
'''14.''' I'm going to add the Vor Armoury vault to the post-game section. 
'''15.''' There's a few zones missing from the list, which I will add. They're: Lumberjack Village, Unknown Tunnels, the developer triggered zones, the Tranquil Meadow, Ruins of Telmur and Shadow Crypt. There's also the "Fearscape (Tannen)" zone, however, I don't believe I've ever accessed it, so I don't know how to do it, nor what level is appropriate for it.
--[[User:Skafsgaard|Skafsgaard]] ([[User talk:Skafsgaard|talk]]) 00:09, 15 February 2016 (CET)

Hi Skafsgaard, I was the one who updated the list. Thanks for your comments! Regarding them:
# Class-specific zones: I'd suggest leaving these out. Otherwise this list wil get longer and more confusing.
# Lumberjack Village - good catch
# Unknown Tunnels - the merchant rescue? yeah, forgot that too
# Developer triggered zones - I actually left them out because they change over time, and hey, possible spoilers
# Tranquil Meadow - Cursed only, can go on Cursed page/guide
# Ruins of Telmur - ?
# Shadow Crypt - starting zone for skeletons/ghouls, right? Class starting zones are listed as before everything else
# Tannen's Fearscape is part of the progression to the end of the game, when you fight with Tannen; it's not something you can choose when to do
# Vor-Armoury vault - post-game is a good idea
# The rest of your comments indicate why often players have difference experiences. For example, the Rhaloren Camp has mages, but it also has long sight lines and open spaces. Kor'Pul has narrow passage ways, and is unlighted, meaning it is harder to see your enemies before you are on top of them. I might choose one over the other based on class.
# Regarding Trollmire 4, I had forgotten about the possibility of the Hedge Wizard or Patchwork Troll; we can move it after Derth. In my playing I'm usually inpatient and just do it right after Trollmire 3 =)
# I used the old ranking for the Golem Graveyard (and usually skip it myself), so we can move it to after the T2 dungeons
# I think you may be overestimating the danger of Lake Nur; if you move it down, it would go after Dark Crypt or Dreadfell, which does not feel right. Also, access to the item Vault can improve survivability.
# In the same way, if you move Temporal Rift down, where would it go? You don't have many other things to move around, and it doesn't make sense to do it after the Far East.
# Putting the Dark Crypt at a place where you then advise not to go in doesn't make much sense. The Crypt is quite dangerous, and you only get one shot at it. The player triggers it so there is less control over when, but at least in Dreadfell you can leave and come back.
# Mark of the Spellblaze is totally optional, so yeah, we could move it around
# I think Vor Armoury - except the Vault! - makes sense where it is. It's good loot and level building before the Prides.
# Regarding Backup Guardings, I'm fine with SWL first; leaving the Dwarf-specific one out. ( We need to put class/race specific stuff elsewhere )
# The order of the Prides can be confusing. I wouldn't mind more opinions from players.
[[User:Ibanix|Ibanix]] ([[User talk:Ibanix|talk]]) 04:47, 15 February 2016 (CET)

Hey Ibanix!
I'm sorry I never got back, like I said I would.
I just wanted to say that you've done an incredible job - this guide is now far more helpful, useful and readable than ever. It has never been this good to be a newbie in this game, with the state of this guide, I think. Excellent job!
--[[User:Skafsgaard|Skafsgaard]] ([[User talk:Skafsgaard|talk]]) 00:07, 16 April 2016 (CEST)

Hello
What about special areas, like bearscape?

Hello! You can sign your name on things by using <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> when you comment.
As for developer areas, I suggest leaving them out; they change over time, and are meant to be 'surprises'.
[[User:Ibanix|Ibanix]] ([[User talk:Ibanix|talk]]) 04:43, 18 February 2016 (CET)

Right. So... I think anyone looking forward to be surprised will not follow this guide, while anyone following this guide will look that special area up in wiki anyway. Unless we want that wow effect on people encountering this in-game for the first time, then I'd vote to include. Or make another list, that will warn about spoilers? Also, +1 for Golem Graveyard, I can't count how many times I died there when following this guide.
--[[User:HissaH|HissaH]] ([[User talk:HissaH|talk]]) 16:01, 18 February 2016 (CET)

:Ok, we'll move the Golem Graveyard down to after Dreadfell. This should be a fair number of levels up. As for special zones, I'd like to find a way to do that that doesn't break the flow of the main zones; reading a list of zones your character can't do isn't helpful. I think additional sections at the end for individual classes, races, and special zones will work. [[User:Ibanix|Ibanix]] ([[User talk:Ibanix|talk]]) 23:46, 18 February 2016 (CET)

I agree, I think making an addendum at the bottom of the page, describing all the side areas that not all characters will have access to, is a really good idea.
--[[User:Skafsgaard|Skafsgaard]] ([[User talk:Skafsgaard|talk]]) 00:08, 16 April 2016 (CEST)

== Backup guardian zone level ==

Hi everyone.

I added where in the zone the backup guardians appear. I personally use this page quite a lot and always get slightly annoyed that it's not displayed.

However, I'm not entirely sure it's "correct" to display it in this page (and it does look a bit cluttered), but it feels useful.

Furthermore, I'm pretty much entirely new to the wiki editing thing, so if I did something wrong feel free to tell me.

[[User:Shaan|Shaan]] ([[User talk:Shaan|talk]]) 15:26, 5 March 2016 (CET)

Good work!
I think this was a really nice, and helpful, addition.
--[[User:Skafsgaard|Skafsgaard]] ([[User talk:Skafsgaard|talk]]) 00:09, 16 April 2016 (CEST)

== Lit and dark dungeons ==
Hey everyone! This guide is really coming along nicely.
I just had the idea that it might be very handy to note whether a dungeon is lit or not. Most players have at least slightly different gear, depending on whether the dungeon they're about to enter is dark or lit, and some even temporarily juggle points into a talent like Heightened Senses when they're about to head into a dark dungeon.
How about we mark dungeons that are either lit or unlit by a certain symbol, so you can easily see at a glance if the dungeon you're about to head into is one where you should bring an extra bright lantern or not? For instance, if a dungeon is dark, we could mark it with a † symbol. If there is an alternate version of the dungeon, we could additionally mark it with a ‡ symbol. So, as an example, let's say that all the following dungeons have alternate versions. Dungeon A is lit in both versions, Dungeon B is lit in the normal version but dark in the alternate, Dungeon C is dark in the normal version but lit in the alternate, and Dungeon D is dark in both versions. The dungeons would thus be marked as such on the list:
1. Dungeon A
2. Dungeon B ‡
3. Dungeon C †
4. Dungeon D †‡
Whether we use this exact way of notation is unimportant - it's just the first idea I got. Regardless of how we do it, however, I think it'll be worthwhile, and very helpful, to have them marked as either lit or dark.
I'll add this same suggestion to the http://te4.org/wiki/Zone page too, since it might be nice to add there as well, as well as add to each individual dungeon page.
--[[User:Skafsgaard|Skafsgaard]] ([[User talk:Skafsgaard|talk]]) 00:21, 16 April 2016 (CEST)

Talk:Recommended Zone Order Progression

2016-04-15T22:09:06Z

Skafsgaard:

Talk:Recommended Zone Order Progression

2016-04-15T22:08:35Z

Skafsgaard: Regarding a possible addendum.

Talk:Recommended Zone Order Progression

2016-04-15T22:07:18Z

Skafsgaard: Commendation of Ibanix' efforts.

Whoever updated and reorganized the list - great job! I'd been thinking of doing it myself, too, recently. 
I do disagree with a few things, however. If no one contests these proposed changes, I will edit them in, in a week's time or so. 
'''1.''' I'd say that Rhaloren Camp is definitely more dangerous than Kor'Pul, since it has a lot of fairly dangerous mages, and some sturdy guards. The undead of Kor'Pul are generally weaker, and there's fewer skeleton mages there. The one thing that's more dangerous about Kor'Pul is that all the levels are dark, whereas not all Rhaloren Camp levels are necessarily dark, depending on whether it's alt or not. Thus, I'd like to change the list to suggest doing Kor'Pul before Rhaloren Camp. However, whether I should move Kor'Pul and Rhaloren Camp to before or after Trollmire 4 and Derth, or simply switch the position on the list as it looks now, I'm not sure - some input there would be appreciated. 
'''2.''' I think Derth should definitely be before Trollmire 4, since the Arena fight is almost always very easy for pretty much any character, and the difficulty is also consistent. Moreover, the rewards can be a nice power bump, which would makes Trollmire 4 easier. In addition, Trollmire 4, while usually not very bad, can actually be unexpectedly difficult, somewhat so if a Hedge Wizard spawns (rare), and even more so if a Patchwork Troll spawn (very rare, but possible). 
'''3.''' It makes no sense that Golem Graveyard appears this early in the list - the level range is 14-20, compared to the 7-14 of the T2 dungeons. In addition, there's a high likelihood of spawning some really nasty rare golems, especially from the chests. The area can (potentially) be quite dangerous, and I've had bad luck with spawns there and lost strong characters there even at later levels. I'm going to move it at ''least'' until after the T2 dungeons, and perhaps even further down, due to the unpredictability of the spawns. 
'''4.''' I'm going to move the Temporal Rift further down. The first area can be bad for some melee characters, and some of the bosses can be quite nasty as well. Not to mention, the level range is above some of the dungeons listed in the level 20 to 30 section of the guide. 
'''5.''' I might move the Lake of Nur slightly further down, simply because the boss can be quite nasty for sustain-heavy characters. It also gives players more time to find an item that lets them breathe in water, or not breathe at all. 
'''6.''' Urkis is one of the game's top player killers (number 7, and the boss with the third most player kills, right after Bill and The Shade), so I reckon I will move Tempest Peak a bit further down the list, even though the level range of the area is fairly low. 
'''7.''' I think I will move the Ruined Dungeon up to the end of the 10 to 20 section, as it has a level range that fits better there, and I've personally never had much of an issue with it. Granted, some of the Guardians there can be nasty, but I don't think I've personally ever died there. 
'''8.''' I think I will move the Dark Crypt to just before Dreadfell, simply because in my experience, almost all characters will reach level 24 and encounter the Dark Crypt before Dreadfell. I will add a note advising against going in, however, unless they've managed to enter and clear Dreadfell first, and also in general advise against going in, unless you need the unlocks and have quite a strong character. 
'''9.''' I'm considering moving Mark of the Spellblaze down to after you get back from the Far East, simply due to how dangerous the Fearscape can be for most characters, unless they have a way of shutting down sustains, draining arcane resources, or have the Flame of Uhr'Rok talent. Alternatively, I might just add a note advising against going in, unless they have one of the three I just mentioned, and instead save it for later. 
'''10.''' I'm going to add a warning to Vor Armoury, advising against going into the vault there, and instead save it for the post-game. 
'''11.''' For the Backup Guardians, I'm going to put a note suggesting the option of doing the SWL first, due to the reward being a major power bump in the game, even though the Backup Guardian there is higher levelled than all others, except for Snaproot. For Dwarves, I'll also instruct them to do The Deep Bellow before The Maze, since it fits in with Trollmire, Kor'Pul, Scin Caves and Reknor, levels-wise. 
'''12.''' I'm going to put Grushnak Pride before Gorbat Pride, since most characters will have a much easier time against melee enemies - melee characters will usually have enough armour/defense/phys save for them not to be much of a problem, and ranged characters will often nuke them before they even close in. I'd like some input on how the other three Prides should be arranged, however. 
'''13.''' I'm going to move Eruan up, and suggest doing it after the first pride, since it's lower levelled, and in my experience, not very hard at all. 
'''14.''' I'm going to add the Vor Armoury vault to the post-game section. 
'''15.''' There's a few zones missing from the list, which I will add. They're: Lumberjack Village, Unknown Tunnels, the developer triggered zones, the Tranquil Meadow, Ruins of Telmur and Shadow Crypt. There's also the "Fearscape (Tannen)" zone, however, I don't believe I've ever accessed it, so I don't know how to do it, nor what level is appropriate for it.
--[[User:Skafsgaard|Skafsgaard]] ([[User talk:Skafsgaard|talk]]) 00:09, 15 February 2016 (CET)

Hi Skafsgaard, I was the one who updated the list. Thanks for your comments! Regarding them:
# Class-specific zones: I'd suggest leaving these out. Otherwise this list wil get longer and more confusing.
# Lumberjack Village - good catch
# Unknown Tunnels - the merchant rescue? yeah, forgot that too
# Developer triggered zones - I actually left them out because they change over time, and hey, possible spoilers
# Tranquil Meadow - Cursed only, can go on Cursed page/guide
# Ruins of Telmur - ?
# Shadow Crypt - starting zone for skeletons/ghouls, right? Class starting zones are listed as before everything else
# Tannen's Fearscape is part of the progression to the end of the game, when you fight with Tannen; it's not something you can choose when to do
# Vor-Armoury vault - post-game is a good idea
# The rest of your comments indicate why often players have difference experiences. For example, the Rhaloren Camp has mages, but it also has long sight lines and open spaces. Kor'Pul has narrow passage ways, and is unlighted, meaning it is harder to see your enemies before you are on top of them. I might choose one over the other based on class.
# Regarding Trollmire 4, I had forgotten about the possibility of the Hedge Wizard or Patchwork Troll; we can move it after Derth. In my playing I'm usually inpatient and just do it right after Trollmire 3 =)
# I used the old ranking for the Golem Graveyard (and usually skip it myself), so we can move it to after the T2 dungeons
# I think you may be overestimating the danger of Lake Nur; if you move it down, it would go after Dark Crypt or Dreadfell, which does not feel right. Also, access to the item Vault can improve survivability.
# In the same way, if you move Temporal Rift down, where would it go? You don't have many other things to move around, and it doesn't make sense to do it after the Far East.
# Putting the Dark Crypt at a place where you then advise not to go in doesn't make much sense. The Crypt is quite dangerous, and you only get one shot at it. The player triggers it so there is less control over when, but at least in Dreadfell you can leave and come back.
# Mark of the Spellblaze is totally optional, so yeah, we could move it around
# I think Vor Armoury - except the Vault! - makes sense where it is. It's good loot and level building before the Prides.
# Regarding Backup Guardings, I'm fine with SWL first; leaving the Dwarf-specific one out. ( We need to put class/race specific stuff elsewhere )
# The order of the Prides can be confusing. I wouldn't mind more opinions from players.
[[User:Ibanix|Ibanix]] ([[User talk:Ibanix|talk]]) 04:47, 15 February 2016 (CET)

Hey Ibanix!
I'm sorry I never got back, like I said I would.
I just wanted to say that you've done an incredible job - this guide is now far more helpful, useful and readable than ever. It has never been this good to be a newbie in this game, with the state of this guide, I think. Excellent job!
--[[User:Skafsgaard|Skafsgaard]] ([[User talk:Skafsgaard|talk]]) 00:07, 16 April 2016 (CEST)

Hello
What about special areas, like bearscape?

Hello! You can sign your name on things by using <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> when you comment.
As for developer areas, I suggest leaving them out; they change over time, and are meant to be 'surprises'.
[[User:Ibanix|Ibanix]] ([[User talk:Ibanix|talk]]) 04:43, 18 February 2016 (CET)

Right. So... I think anyone looking forward to be surprised will not follow this guide, while anyone following this guide will look that special area up in wiki anyway. Unless we want that wow effect on people encountering this in-game for the first time, then I'd vote to include. Or make another list, that will warn about spoilers? Also, +1 for Golem Graveyard, I can't count how many times I died there when following this guide.
--[[User:HissaH|HissaH]] ([[User talk:HissaH|talk]]) 16:01, 18 February 2016 (CET)

:Ok, we'll move the Golem Graveyard down to after Dreadfell. This should be a fair number of levels up. As for special zones, I'd like to find a way to do that that doesn't break the flow of the main zones; reading a list of zones your character can't do isn't helpful. I think additional sections at the end for individual classes, races, and special zones will work. [[User:Ibanix|Ibanix]] ([[User talk:Ibanix|talk]]) 23:46, 18 February 2016 (CET)

== Backup guardian zone level ==

Hi everyone.

I added where in the zone the backup guardians appear. I personally use this page quite a lot and always get slightly annoyed that it's not displayed.

However, I'm not entirely sure it's "correct" to display it in this page (and it does look a bit cluttered), but it feels useful.

Furthermore, I'm pretty much entirely new to the wiki editing thing, so if I did something wrong feel free to tell me.

[[User:Shaan|Shaan]] ([[User talk:Shaan|talk]]) 15:26, 5 March 2016 (CET)

Talk:Recommended Zone Order Progression

2016-02-14T23:12:18Z

Skafsgaard:

Talk:Recommended Zone Order Progression

2016-02-14T23:10:51Z

Skafsgaard:

Talk:Recommended Zone Order Progression

2016-02-14T23:09:11Z

Skafsgaard: Created page with "Whoever updated and reorganized the list - great job! I'd been thinking of doing it myself, too, recently. I do disagree with a few things, however. If no one contests these p..."

Whoever updated and reorganized the list - great job! I'd been thinking of doing it myself, too, recently.
I do disagree with a few things, however. If no one contests these proposed changes, I will edit them in, in a week's time or so.
1. I'd say that Rhaloren Camp is definitely more dangerous than Kor'Pul, since it has a lot of fairly dangerous mages, and some sturdy guards. The undead of Kor'Pul are generally weaker, and there's fewer skeleton mages there. The one thing that's more dangerous about Kor'Pul is that all the levels are dark, whereas not all Rhaloren Camp levels are necessarily dark, depending on whether it's alt or not. Thus, I'd like to change the list to suggest doing Kor'Pul before Rhaloren Camp. However, whether I should move Kor'Pul and Rhaloren Camp to before or after Trollmire 4 and Derth, or simply switch the position on the list as it looks now, I'm not sure - some input there would be appreciated.
2. I think Derth should definitely be before Trollmire 4, since the Arena fight is almost always very easy for pretty much any character, and the difficulty is also consistent. Moreover, the rewards can be a nice power bump, which would makes Trollmire 4 easier. In addition, Trollmire 4, while usually not very bad, can actually be unexpectedly difficult, somewhat so if a Hedge Wizard spawns (rare), and even more so if a Patchwork Troll spawn (very rare, but possible).
3. It makes no sense that Golem Graveyard appears this early in the list - the level range is 14-20, compared to the 7-14 of the T2 dungeons. In addition, there's a high likelihood of spawning some really nasty rare golems, especially from the chests. The area can (potentially) be quite dangerous, and I've had bad luck with spawns there and lost strong characters there even at later levels. I'm going to move it at ''least'' until after the T2 dungeons, and perhaps even further down, due to the unpredictability of the spawns.
4. I'm going to move the Temporal Rift further down. The first area can be bad for some melee characters, and some of the bosses can be quite nasty as well. Not to mention, the level range is above some of the dungeons listed in the level 20 to 30 section of the guide.
5. I might move the Lake of Nur slightly further down, simply because the boss can be quite nasty for sustain-heavy characters. It also gives players more time to find an item that lets them breathe in water, or not breathe at all.
6. Urkis is one of the game's top player killers (number 7, and the boss with the third most player kills, right after Bill and The Shade), so I reckon I will move Tempest Peak a bit further down the list, even though the level range of the area is fairly low.
7. I think I will move the Ruined Dungeon up to the end of the 10 to 20 section, as it has a level range that fits better there, and I've personally never had much of an issue with it. Granted, some of the Guardians there can be nasty, but I don't think I've personally ever died there.
8. I think I will move the Dark Crypt to just before Dreadfell, simply because in my experience, almost all characters will reach level 24 and encounter the Dark Crypt before Dreadfell. I will add a note advising against going in, however, unless they've managed to enter and clear Dreadfell first, and also in general advise against going in, unless you need the unlocks and have quite a strong character.
9. I'm considering moving Mark of the Spellblaze down to after you get back from the Far East, simply due to how dangerous the Fearscape can be for most characters, unless they have a way of shutting down sustains, draining arcane resources, or have the Flame of Uhr'Rok talent. Alternatively, I might just add a note advising against going in, unless they have one of the three I just mentioned, and instead save it for later.
10. I'm going to add a warning to Vor Armoury, advising against going into the vault there, and instead save it for the post-game.
11. For the Backup Guardians, I'm going to put a note suggesting the option of doing the SWL first, due to the reward being a major power bump in the game, even though the Backup Guardian there is higher levelled than all others, except for Snaproot. For Dwarves, I'll also instruct them to do The Deep Bellow before The Maze, since it fits in with Trollmire, Kor'Pul, Scin Caves and Reknor, levels-wise.
12. I'm going to put Grushnak Pride before Gorbat Pride, since most characters will have a much easier time against melee enemies - melee characters will usually have enough armour/defense/phys save for them not to be much of a problem, and ranged characters will often nuke them before they even close in. I'd like some input on how the other three Prides should be arranged, however.
13. I'm going to move Eruan up, and suggest doing it after the first pride, since it's lower levelled, and in my experience, not very hard at all.
14. I'm going to add the Vor Armoury vault to the post-game section.
15. There's a few zones missing from the list, which I will add. They're: Lumberjack Village, Unknown Tunnels, the developer triggered zones, the Tranquil Meadow, Ruins of Telmur and Shadow Crypt. There's also the "Fearscape (Tannen)" zone, however, I don't believe I've ever accessed it, so I don't know how to do it, nor what level is appropriate for it.
--[[User:Skafsgaard|Skafsgaard]] ([[User talk:Skafsgaard|talk]]) 00:09, 15 February 2016 (CET)