Talk:Recommended Zone Order Progression
Whoever updated and reorganized the list - great job! I'd been thinking of doing it myself, too, recently.
I do disagree with a few things, however. If no one contests these proposed changes, I will edit them in, in a week's time or so.
1. I'd say that Rhaloren Camp is definitely more dangerous than Kor'Pul, since it has a lot of fairly dangerous mages, and some sturdy guards. The undead of Kor'Pul are generally weaker, and there's fewer skeleton mages there. The one thing that's more dangerous about Kor'Pul is that all the levels are dark, whereas not all Rhaloren Camp levels are necessarily dark, depending on whether it's alt or not. Thus, I'd like to change the list to suggest doing Kor'Pul before Rhaloren Camp. However, whether I should move Kor'Pul and Rhaloren Camp to before or after Trollmire 4 and Derth, or simply switch the position on the list as it looks now, I'm not sure - some input there would be appreciated.
2. I think Derth should definitely be before Trollmire 4, since the Arena fight is almost always very easy for pretty much any character, and the difficulty is also consistent. Moreover, the rewards can be a nice power bump, which would makes Trollmire 4 easier. In addition, Trollmire 4, while usually not very bad, can actually be unexpectedly difficult, somewhat so if a Hedge Wizard spawns (rare), and even more so if a Patchwork Troll spawn (very rare, but possible).
3. It makes no sense that Golem Graveyard appears this early in the list - the level range is 14-20, compared to the 7-14 of the T2 dungeons. In addition, there's a high likelihood of spawning some really nasty rare golems, especially from the chests. The area can (potentially) be quite dangerous, and I've had bad luck with spawns there and lost strong characters there even at later levels. I'm going to move it at least until after the T2 dungeons, and perhaps even further down, due to the unpredictability of the spawns.
4. I'm going to move the Temporal Rift further down. The first area can be bad for some melee characters, and some of the bosses can be quite nasty as well. Not to mention, the level range is above some of the dungeons listed in the level 20 to 30 section of the guide.
5. I might move the Lake of Nur slightly further down, simply because the boss can be quite nasty for sustain-heavy characters. It also gives players more time to find an item that lets them breathe in water, or not breathe at all.
6. Urkis is one of the game's top player killers (number 7, and the boss with the third most player kills, right after Bill and The Shade), so I reckon I will move Tempest Peak a bit further down the list, even though the level range of the area is fairly low.
7. I think I will move the Ruined Dungeon up to the end of the 10 to 20 section, as it has a level range that fits better there, and I've personally never had much of an issue with it. Granted, some of the Guardians there can be nasty, but I don't think I've personally ever died there.
8. I think I will move the Dark Crypt to just before Dreadfell, simply because in my experience, almost all characters will reach level 24 and encounter the Dark Crypt before Dreadfell. I will add a note advising against going in, however, unless they've managed to enter and clear Dreadfell first, and also in general advise against going in, unless you need the unlocks and have quite a strong character.
9. I'm considering moving Mark of the Spellblaze down to after you get back from the Far East, simply due to how dangerous the Fearscape can be for most characters, unless they have a way of shutting down sustains, draining arcane resources, or have the Flame of Uhr'Rok talent. Alternatively, I might just add a note advising against going in, unless they have one of the three I just mentioned, and instead save it for later.
10. I'm going to add a warning to Vor Armoury, advising against going into the vault there, and instead save it for the post-game.
11. For the Backup Guardians, I'm going to put a note suggesting the option of doing the SWL first, due to the reward being a major power bump in the game, even though the Backup Guardian there is higher levelled than all others, except for Snaproot. For Dwarves, I'll also instruct them to do The Deep Bellow before The Maze, since it fits in with Trollmire, Kor'Pul, Scin Caves and Reknor, levels-wise.
12. I'm going to put Grushnak Pride before Gorbat Pride, since most characters will have a much easier time against melee enemies - melee characters will usually have enough armour/defense/phys save for them not to be much of a problem, and ranged characters will often nuke them before they even close in. I'd like some input on how the other three Prides should be arranged, however.
13. I'm going to move Eruan up, and suggest doing it after the first pride, since it's lower levelled, and in my experience, not very hard at all.
14. I'm going to add the Vor Armoury vault to the post-game section.
15. There's a few zones missing from the list, which I will add. They're: Lumberjack Village, Unknown Tunnels, the developer triggered zones, the Tranquil Meadow, Ruins of Telmur and Shadow Crypt. There's also the "Fearscape (Tannen)" zone, however, I don't believe I've ever accessed it, so I don't know how to do it, nor what level is appropriate for it. --Skafsgaard (talk) 00:09, 15 February 2016 (CET)
Hi Skafsgaard, I was the one who updated the list. Thanks for your comments! Regarding them:
- Class-specific zones: I'd suggest leaving these out. Otherwise this list wil get longer and more confusing.
- Lumberjack Village - good catch
- Unknown Tunnels - the merchant rescue? yeah, forgot that too
- Developer triggered zones - I actually left them out because they change over time, and hey, possible spoilers
- Tranquil Meadow - Cursed only, can go on Cursed page/guide
- Ruins of Telmur - ?
- Shadow Crypt - starting zone for skeletons/ghouls, right? Class starting zones are listed as before everything else
- Tannen's Fearscape is part of the progression to the end of the game, when you fight with Tannen; it's not something you can choose when to do
- Vor-Armoury vault - post-game is a good idea
- The rest of your comments indicate why often players have difference experiences. For example, the Rhaloren Camp has mages, but it also has long sight lines and open spaces. Kor'Pul has narrow passage ways, and is unlighted, meaning it is harder to see your enemies before you are on top of them. I might choose one over the other based on class.
- Regarding Trollmire 4, I had forgotten about the possibility of the Hedge Wizard or Patchwork Troll; we can move it after Derth. In my playing I'm usually inpatient and just do it right after Trollmire 3 =)
- I used the old ranking for the Golem Graveyard (and usually skip it myself), so we can move it to after the T2 dungeons
- I think you may be overestimating the danger of Lake Nur; if you move it down, it would go after Dark Crypt or Dreadfell, which does not feel right. Also, access to the item Vault can improve survivability.
- In the same way, if you move Temporal Rift down, where would it go? You don't have many other things to move around, and it doesn't make sense to do it after the Far East.
- Putting the Dark Crypt at a place where you then advise not to go in doesn't make much sense. The Crypt is quite dangerous, and you only get one shot at it. The player triggers it so there is less control over when, but at least in Dreadfell you can leave and come back.
- Mark of the Spellblaze is totally optional, so yeah, we could move it around
- I think Vor Armoury - except the Vault! - makes sense where it is. It's good loot and level building before the Prides.
- Regarding Backup Guardings, I'm fine with SWL first; leaving the Dwarf-specific one out. ( We need to put class/race specific stuff elsewhere )
- The order of the Prides can be confusing. I wouldn't mind more opinions from players.
Hey Ibanix! I'm sorry I never got back, like I said I would. I just wanted to say that you've done an incredible job - this guide is now far more helpful, useful and readable than ever. It has never been this good to be a newbie in this game, with the state of this guide, I think. Excellent job! --Skafsgaard (talk) 00:07, 16 April 2016 (CEST)
Hello What about special areas, like bearscape?
Hello! You can sign your name on things by using ~~~~ when you comment. As for developer areas, I suggest leaving them out; they change over time, and are meant to be 'surprises'. Ibanix (talk) 04:43, 18 February 2016 (CET)
Right. So... I think anyone looking forward to be surprised will not follow this guide, while anyone following this guide will look that special area up in wiki anyway. Unless we want that wow effect on people encountering this in-game for the first time, then I'd vote to include. Or make another list, that will warn about spoilers? Also, +1 for Golem Graveyard, I can't count how many times I died there when following this guide. --HissaH (talk) 16:01, 18 February 2016 (CET)
- Ok, we'll move the Golem Graveyard down to after Dreadfell. This should be a fair number of levels up. As for special zones, I'd like to find a way to do that that doesn't break the flow of the main zones; reading a list of zones your character can't do isn't helpful. I think additional sections at the end for individual classes, races, and special zones will work. Ibanix (talk) 23:46, 18 February 2016 (CET)
I agree, I think making an addendum at the bottom of the page, describing all the side areas that not all characters will have access to, is a really good idea. --Skafsgaard (talk) 00:08, 16 April 2016 (CEST)
Backup guardian zone level
I added where in the zone the backup guardians appear. I personally use this page quite a lot and always get slightly annoyed that it's not displayed.
However, I'm not entirely sure it's "correct" to display it in this page (and it does look a bit cluttered), but it feels useful.
Furthermore, I'm pretty much entirely new to the wiki editing thing, so if I did something wrong feel free to tell me.
Lit and dark dungeons
Hey everyone! This guide is really coming along nicely. I just had the idea that it might be very handy to note whether a dungeon is lit or not. Most players have at least slightly different gear, depending on whether the dungeon they're about to enter is dark or lit, and some even temporarily juggle points into a talent like Heightened Senses when they're about to head into a dark dungeon. How about we mark dungeons that are either lit or unlit by a certain symbol, so you can easily see at a glance if the dungeon you're about to head into is one where you should bring an extra bright lantern or not? For instance, if a dungeon is dark, we could mark it with a † symbol. If there is an alternate version of the dungeon, we could additionally mark it with a ‡ symbol. So, as an example, let's say that all the following dungeons have alternate versions. Dungeon A is lit in both versions, Dungeon B is lit in the normal version but dark in the alternate, Dungeon C is dark in the normal version but lit in the alternate, and Dungeon D is dark in both versions. The dungeons would thus be marked as such on the list: 1. Dungeon A 2. Dungeon B ‡ 3. Dungeon C † 4. Dungeon D †‡ Whether we use this exact way of notation is unimportant - it's just the first idea I got. Regardless of how we do it, however, I think it'll be worthwhile, and very helpful, to have them marked as either lit or dark. I'll add this same suggestion to the http://te4.org/wiki/Zone page too, since it might be nice to add there as well, as well as add to each individual dungeon page. --Skafsgaard (talk) 00:21, 16 April 2016 (CEST)
I've updated the list to more fit the current paths people are taking. I'll be checking back on this page for a while so if anyone has any suggestions or comments, please let me know! --Mail
This page is in need of updates as of 1.7
Assassin lord (unknown tunnels) now can’t spawn until level 18
I imagine there may be other inaccuracies since this page hasn’t been updated in quite some time.