And again just wow.

I was doing pretty well. Level 21! Archmage Dwarf (who would have thunk it?) Pretty decent equipment Level 5 spells, Decent Magic/Con/Will and not terrible Str/Cun either (from items)... The 4 sections of maze, 6 out of 7 escorts all done.

Then...I got the crypt quest and thought I might as well give it a shot.

Note to self: NEVER do the crypt quest again. Ever. It is pure suicide. Well I managed to probability travel through the sublevels easily enough killing corruption mages then popping out of the rooms and healing/resting in safe places then doing it again. But boy did they almost get me a couple times anyway.

Thankfully that strategy worked enough for me to find the stairs and head down. Managed to get through a bunch of levels.

At the bottom I faced the four (p) acolytes. Thankfully two start off semi hidden by a wall so they can't just blast me to cinders as soon as I enter. However they do managed to kill me before I can kill one. I have 4 lives left. I eventually kill 2 but the demon shows up and after that it is all over. at 900+ hp each acolyte alone was a match for me. 4x + a U is ridiculous. The count down gives almost no time to deal 4k damage within. Needless to say I left another ghost down there along with all the others gathering dust from other players who probably also said to themselves "never again."

Sure glad I didn't even try the Master. Being screwed by Ungodly highlevel Undead would probably have been too much for me.

I did lose one life in the maze (starting zone) before beating it, 1 in the Sandwurm Lair and 2x in the fortress.
I managed to complete an escort quest on level 7 of Daikara AND defeated the (D) boss. This time no scary out of depth monster was around to steal my loot and I found an egg of some interest. Sadly the (S) spiders it summoned were about as useful as bears. :/

Conclusions: It is clear to me that unless I know the strategy for these levels for the character type I am playing I stand no chance at all. The game starts off fairly easy to play once one gets a handle on the changes and the keys etc. But then it rapidly scales off the map. At over 600hp (and 400mp base) I couldn't deal with the end game of the crypt at all. I shudder to think what the areas of the game are like that I have yet to see.

I am imagining to be able to traverse to the east (and survive there) you either need superb luck or the skills of a roguelike diety. Sad really because despite my earlier discouragement I was really enjoying this character and had hopes to develop it to a high level at some point.

Commiserations, but...

Well if you don't think you can beat The Master whatever possessed you to try the Crypt? Also 600 HP sounds too low for that level, you should maybe invest more in the Constitution stat and the Health talents.

I personally think the extra lives mode encourages bad play. Try hardcore mode and you'll hone your roguelike skills much more.

Con was nearly maxed...take a

Con was nearly maxed...take a look at the character. I managed the crypt in an earlier version (b.16) with an alchemist. From what I've gathered here from other reports the Crypt is about as hard as the Master. So to answer your question I did not know if I could beat the master or not but I assumed so. In retrospect I can see that was folly as was assuming I could do the crypt with a level 21 archmage. I disagree that hardcore will "hone" my "skills". Thanks for the advice though.

Also some advice of my own: Saying anything followed by 'but' makes it sound less than sincere. Next time leave off the commiserations and get straight to the "you suck" speech.


Rereading that I see I was just a bit too snippy there. Just hate condescension even if its only in my head.

Crypt and (general) Hardcore mode

I would change your note from "never again" to "never unless my level is 25+". Those extra 4 lives should have given you another health +40 boost, and extra class points to up the damage of your spells a tad more. Everything matters in such fights. I know that I will never enter the crypt unless I have finished the Dreadfell - those 3-4 extra levels, escort quests rewards and loot helps.

I agree that playing hardcore will hone the skills. (Sorry to write so much as a comment to the post, but it seemed to pour out once I started. So this is to anyone who cares to read, not directly to OP)
The game is supposed to be beatable without losing lives at all. So when death is not an option you play much more safely and smartly. You died 4 times in the starting dungeons, where 0 is the norm for hardcore. This should suggest that you use different tactics than people who regularly beat starting areas flawlessly. Mabye your build was subpar? Mabye you are forgetting to use infusions or racial abilities? Mabye you are using wrong kind of gear? Mabye maze first (after trolls I assume) isn't such a good idea? (I almost always do troll - old forest - keep - maze/sand - daikara.)

I have little experience in Tome4, just two weeks worth. Did play other roguelikes, so I play hardcore. I got one char to final dungeon, died there before final fight (I think anyway). I survived crypt 3 out of 3 times (sadly the girl died 2 of 3 but not me). Killed the master 3 of 3. What I love about the game and quest system is actually that you might need advance knowledge to successfully complete certain quests (merchant, crypt, Limmir, mount doom), but if you play your char well (and it is safely built) you should survive and still be able to proceed in the game.

I did die a lot in the early game, but that sure taught _me_ more than trekking on with a doomed-from-the-midgame character would have.

"The game starts off fairly easy to play once one gets a handle on the changes and the keys etc"

4 deaths = not THAT easy...all my attempts at making a mage char have failed, so I know I need to learn how to keep one alive first.

Here is a question: why do

Here is a question: why do you think I can succeed at 25 where I failed at 21? According to your own logic my approach is flawed and should lose no matter what. (By the way I have succeeded at 16 where I failed at 21 so I don't think it is just a level issue.)

Your experiences with the game are clearly not mine. Now I am not an Adom player at all and while I have played many games (roguelike and other types) over many years I haven't beaten any of the ones you mentioned. Heck I have trouble beating Civ games past the warlord level.(I can win but the scores are always subpar.) I know I lack patience for true skill in these games. I am not a powergamer. I do not enjoy powergaming.

That said I don't think TOME has to be a powergamer only type of game where only those who play flawlessly get to enjoy it. Flawlessness has a price. What I think is required is patience, which is something I lack. And knowledge which I will acquire.

And no, not "THAT" easy. Fairly easy. I chose my words with some care. It has some randomness which makes life difficult at first. (Equipment varies a lot, what is in stores, what you face in any given level. Even the Trollmire which is the starting area. The reason I don't do TM first normally (though I did at first) is because it gives terrible exp and is a slow slog for a starting character. It is a bit safer I agree but it is also boring. For me 1 death in normal is a fair trade for a faster more satisfying start.)

As for Hardcore, the style is not for me as I do not enjoy spending hours on a game only to have to start from scratch because of a momentary lapse of judgement or a twitchy finger as has happened in this very game to me. That's one reason I never tried to beat the bands. Old Tome had some mods where the danger of that was lesser. And some wacky modes like Lost Souls that were very random and potentially interesting (if doomed.)

That isn't to say I will never try hardcore or infinity mode (since I managed to unlock that today) but it is not how I enjoy playing. I never bothered with ironman in D2/LOD...or any of its mods. If I want that kind of challenge I play M:tg or Chess. For other games I prefer a slightly less frustrating approach.

I am a bit confused on one thing though. If you haven't made a successful mage yet how can you presume to give me advice on the crypt using a mage?